Do the Netroots have Obama's back?

I'm curious to hear some opinions on why the netroots didn't go postal after seeing this...

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/19/fox- obama-madrassa/

I realize politics isn't a tea party, but this attack struck me as especially nasty and bigoted. I felt sick to my stomach just watching the "Fox and Friends" segment. Suprisingly, I haven't heard any outrage about this at MyDD, Kos or TPM.

Are bloggers ignoring it because its just "business as usual" at Fox and the MSM won't give it any play (at least for now)?

My theory is that the netroots don't have Obama's back, at least to the extent of someone like Edwards, due to his past criticism of blogs and the party in general. My feeling is that he's going to end up having to pay in the campaign for trying to prove that he's not a partisan while failing to kiss the ring of the powers that be in the blogosphere.

This is the first sign of what could end up being a big problem for the Obama campaign. I think the fact that he's put some much effort towards making sure he has no enemies has left him with even less friends.



Display:


Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (3.00 / 2)

I would consider walking through a puddle for Obama (if it was raining and there was someplace I really needed to be). But I have seen zero reason to walk through fire.


by Bob Brigham on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 10:30:32 PM EST

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (3.00 / 1)

Netroots are mostly anti-Obama due to old attachments to Edwards and Clark and Obama not showing enough obeisance.

I wouldn't worry about the Fox News racscist stuff...it's not going to work on Obama.


by BrionLutz on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 10:37:47 PM EST

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (3.00 / 0)

Edwards had very little netroots support in 2004. There was that guy named Dr. Dean if I remember correctly.


by adamterando on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 10:53:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (none / 0)

Actually I'm more worried about how the netroots try to find everyway possible to to make anything he does look bad.  They have been doing more trashing and tearing him down than the repugs.


by vwcat on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 03:21:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (3.00 / 1)

I wouldn't worry about it.  Historically the netroots impact has been funding and I think Obama is not going to have any trouble with funding.

As for the attacks, primaries do serve a purpose of seeing if the candidate has vulnerabilities. Republicans will certainly find the same flaws so you want to see what turns up.

The only real attack we've seen on Obama is the "experience" issue.  Is eight years in State and four years in Federal legislature enough experience.

Hard for Edwards to argue his six years vs. Obama's four years is an advantage.  

Hillary has a legit advantage spending eight years in the White House but her health care disaster tends to negate that advantage.


by BrionLutz on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 09:56:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (none / 0)

I sort of feel that if these types of attacks are going to be made inevitably, it's better to get them out there early rather than later.  Either Obama will handle them or they'll die of their own accord and be "old news", or, if they're going to stick and do ultimate damage, it's better to know this early and go with plan B (or candidate B).  
No one candidate is indispensible.  There are many good Dem candidates and our job as Dems is to find the best and most electable and go with that one in the final round.
by susie on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 01:44:39 AM EST

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (none / 0)

I've always thought Obama's biggest weakness is going to be his heritage.  His name, Barrack Hussein Obama is not "American" sounding.  Attending an Islamic school for two years while in Indonesia will inflame the Religious Right probably more than Hillary Clinton, and you know those accusations will come.

I oppose Obama because I think he's wishy-washy and cautious, but the kind of attacks that will be made against him make me sick.  Much worse than the Swiftboat ads.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 01:56:17 AM EST

Re: "wishy-washy and cautious" (none / 0)

I think this is right.  I oppose, or at least don't yet support, Obama for the same reasons.


by justinh on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 11:16:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I admit though (none / 0)

Though I thought there'd be some attacks like these, I never foresaw that the right would blame them on Hillary Clinton.


New Jersey politics and news
by John DE on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 12:36:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (none / 0)

The netroots hate Obama.  They are enthralled with everything Edwards from how he brushes his teeth to overlooking anything that might dim the glow of their rapture.
they have a set of standards for Edwards which is give him a pass for anything and everything and never a bad thought shall cross their minds.
For Obama, they will find anyway to twist anything and everything he does in a bad light.  They will not give him credit for anything and never shall a good thought cross their minds.
by vwcat on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 03:18:45 AM EST

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (none / 0)

Remember,

It's not important if you voted for the IWR in '02; what's really important is being very, very, sorry for that vote come '08.


by Sam I Am on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 10:06:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (3.00 / 2)

I'd rather someone who voted the wrong way and apologized in no uncertain terms for it, not just in words but in deed,  than someone who agrees with me but won't fight for it.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 10:46:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (none / 0)

Funny, vwcat, that's how you seem to view Edwards. I don't think we have a perfect candidate in 2008, but Edwards matches up best to what I want right now. I like many of the others, too, including Obama.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 10:47:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (none / 0)

Where do you get that the netroots hate Obama?  I don't get that at all.  Are there things people aren't happy about?  Sure there is.  A lot of people, myself included, think he is somewhat of a DLC Democrat(I know he doesn't want to be mentioned with them .. but he exhibits some of there attributes).  I would vote for Obama in the primary over HRC.  I don't give Edwards a blank check.  Personally, my first choice(Feingold) isn't running.


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 11:47:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (none / 0)

A 21st century campaign understands that it reaches the ~10M member progressive base through the blogosphere. The role of the blogs, websites, and commenters in rapid-response doesn't happen magically, without coordination, outreach, and organizing.


by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 11:57:42 AM EST

Oh Yeah??? (none / 0)

The role of the blogs, websites, and commenters in rapid-response doesn't happen magically, without coordination, outreach, and organizing.

Just wait till Bush bombs Iran.


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 02:35:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

p.s. (3.00 / 1)

I'm really going to enjoy Obama triangulating that!


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 02:36:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do candidates need blogs to reach bloggers? (none / 0)

"A 21st century campaign understands that it reaches the ~10M member progressive base through the blogosphere."

That might exagerate the case since main demographic for those who post in online forums is educated, largely white group who also read newspapers, listen to NPR, watch TV news so they are plugged into all kinds of media.

And candiates don't really post in the online forums, the might do drive bys or have staff do drive bys using their ID but candidates don't really have time for extended online discussions.

Online chats are hideously slow and are really inefficient means of communication.

For how well a candidate is plugged into "The Google" (as it's now known), I'd go more by the candidate's web site. Is it well put together and can I find where they stand on the issues quickly. The candidate's website's discussion forum is where I'd expect the candidate to spend some time answering followup questions on their policies.


by BrionLutz on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 03:11:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do candidates need blogs to reach bloggers? (3.00 / 2)

I think it's interesting that Obama's website has nothing, absolutely nothing, when it comes to positions.  There's not even an "issues" secion, only a "biography" and "contribute" section.

I remember when you eviscerated Edwards for not solving the world's problems in his announcement, then criticized him for not having things available on his website.

Why not the same standard for BHO?


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 05:37:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do candidates need blogs to reach bloggers? (none / 0)

"I remember when you eviscerated Edwards for not solving the world's problems in his announcement..."

Nope, Edwards got nailed by a lot of the blogopshere for announcing in New Orleans but not addressing any of the New Orleans issues of bad government of Bush Jr before, during and after hurricane Katrina.

As a counter example, Obama sponsored and passed a Senate bill that eliminated the Bush Jr/Halliburton no-bid, sweetheart contracts in New Orleans.


by BrionLutz on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 07:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (3.00 / 1)

I have seen some nets stand up.

But most of the netroots want Edwards because he buys more ads.

I really don't care what the netroots.

I have seeen Obama in action.

He will rally America.  And Edwards will spend two years being called a flip flopper


by rapallos on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 12:55:12 PM EST

To What??? (3.00 / 2)

He will rally America.
What exactly will he rally America to?  If he could actually answer this question, he could have virtually all the netroots in his back pocket.

But he seems to have "other priorities."


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 02:31:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To What??? (3.00 / 3)

That's really the key question here.  I'd also suggest that Obama would have the netroots if he represented something concrete to get behind.  


by justinh on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 02:57:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's Made It Clear He Doesn't Want or Need Us (none / 0)

He has plenty of support elsewhere.

Naturally, an attack on any of us is an attack on all.  But:

(1) Obama's been pretty good at attacking us himself.

(2) We know he's not exactly defenseless.

So I don't really see much to question here.


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 02:02:20 PM EST

Re: Obama's Made It Clear (3.00 / 1)

I agree with (1). I'm not sure how well he's able to defend himself though. That's why I suggested in my post that it was signficant that the netroots don't seem to have his back. The only situation I remember where he actually had to defend himself was last year's spat with McCain. If I remember correctly, he pretty much backed down and looked like a wimp. On this latest bit of nonsense with Fox News, I haven't heard any response from him or his campaign. Eventually, he's going to have to get angry and start defending himself because no one else (maybe Dick Durbin) seems willing. This is going to be hard for him because the foundation for his campaign is this message of a "new brand of politics" based on bipartisanship and collegiality. But as I said in my post, this attitude has left him with zero enemies and less friends.


by BobbyNYC on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 03:45:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Made It Clear (none / 0)

This is a good point of discussion.  Let me suggest this--Obama has to be able to defend himself by winning the media primary: the dark room politics of getting news directors, editors, and reporters to cover certain stories and cover them in favorable ways.

I think the netroots can help draw attention to stories like this one, but, as I've seen in the Dean and Lamont races, network TV news reaches way more voters than the netroots.  


by justinh on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 04:16:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's Living In A Dreamworld (3.00 / 1)

Eventually, he's going to have to get angry and start defending himself because no one else (maybe Dick Durbin) seems willing. This is going to be hard for him because the foundation for his campaign is this message of a "new brand of politics" based on bipartisanship and collegiality.
Not to mention the ice cream, pizza and beer diet.

It's the sheer delusional nature of the bubble he's created for himself that's ultimately the worst thing about his candidacy, IMHO. We've already had 6 years of a bubble boy presidency, and it's taken a wrecking ball to the GOP.  Why in the world would we want to follow that with our own bubble boy presidency?  Because his bubble is nicer than Bush's???

Better he should have to face the music now, and figure out some way to deal with it, than escape scot free until lives other than his depend on it.

Oh, wait... He's a US Senator. They already do.


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 04:30:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's Living In A Dreamworld (none / 0)

This is an interesting perspective on Obama.


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 05:40:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I got his back (none / 0)

I'd take a bullet for Barack Obama.


by Terryus on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 02:09:28 PM EST

I'll Take A Ping-Pong Ball (2.66 / 3)

Seeing as how he ping-pongs around.


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 02:37:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I got his back (none / 0)

shudder


by justinh on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 04:17:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I got his back (none / 0)

Why? What does he inspire in you?


by adamterando on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 08:34:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I got his back (none / 0)

I must admit I am an Obama partisan, but he inspires in me a belief and hope in the political process in the US which I haven't felt since RFK was shot.  I am puzzled by reluctance of liberal Democrats to be enthusiastic about him when:

1. He was absolutely unequivocal about the IWR when it was not politically expedient. Full stop. I would quote the speech but you've seen it already.

2. He has made a good impression as a senator with legislation that seems important and on-the-ball; transparecy in government, energy security (which will become a MAJOR issue), for example.  And manages co-sponsorship with R's on many issues.

3. He is qualified and competent and has obviously impressed allies and adversaries.  The Harvard Law Review editorship is significant, for example, and he currently enjoys high approval ratings in his constituency. But he doesn't seem to talk down to people.

4. He speaks in a way that brings enthusiasm to the whole idea of liberal Democratic politics, a la Dean.  Students, disenfranchised voters see this and hopefully will respond to his candidacy.

5. His apparent appeal in traditionally hostile or indifferent audiences for a liberal Democrat is inspiring.

6. He is telegenic and intelligent but seems able to challenge his audiences to re-think their traditional position on issues; he respects people who disagree with him and is dignified in his advocacy.

7. He is not afraid to talk about faith and/or religon; not just the legalities of separation of church and state.

8. He has very cleverly pre-empted potential 'dirt' by writing openly about himself years ago.  The madrassa thing is mentioned in his own books. And he writes and speaks well; in his own words.

9. He speaks from the heart and inspires people to lift their political aspirations to something far better than the comprimises we have been given all these years.

I was totally for Dean for many of the same reasons but this seems even a better opportunity; I would love to see Obama win.  He reminds be of Bobby and has attracted the same kind of flak.


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Jan 21, 2007 at 11:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I got his back (3.00 / 2)

Shaun,

Thanks for laying out your reasons.  As a liberal Democrat who also supported Dean, I have reservations about Obama.  He seems to be a fine candidate, but nothing yet makes him stand out for me.  (Actually, I admit that his refusal to campaign for Lamont, after coming to CT and publicly endorsing Lieberman in the primary, does give me perhaps  more pause than most.)  Anyway, here's what "puzzles" me about the strength of Obama's support.

1. When was it not "politically expedient" for him to do so?  If he were for the IWR, he would not have been able to win the Illinois primary and then the senate.  (Even before the primary, what was the poltiical downside for him as a Chicago Democrat?)

2. I agree.  Obama seems to be a mainstream Democrat.

3.  I don't doubt that Obama is "qualified" and competent."  In fact I have never been persuaded by the objection that he is too "inexperienced."

4, 5, 6, 7, 9.  I haven't heard Obama say anything beyond political cliches that politicians have employed successfully for years--i.e. partisanship, time for a different kind of politics, talk more about faith, etc.  As for liking Obama because he is charismatic, this is equivalent to saying, "I like Obama because he is likable."  By definition, this is irrational (but I don't mean that pejoratively--it's simply not a logical reason reason for supporting a candidate.)

8.  I haven't read his book, which may be more substantive than his public speeches.  I look forward to hearing more from him in this regard--this is what could persuade me to support Obama.


by justinh on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 07:19:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I got his back (none / 0)

Well, I am not too sure what you mean by 'what was the downside' for him, I assume you are questioning his motives or suggesting that this entailed no risk but advantage to him. But I certainly recall the political context in which this speech was made, the patriotic, almost vitriolic, 'call to arms' which was quite powerful at that time and had us willing to grant extraordinary latitude to the executive branch and the military to redress the terrible wrong which had been inflicted on us;  powerful enough to cower the NYT and other mainstream media into suspending judgement on the war and the measures taken to prosecute it. And this at a time when Senator Obama was in the Illinois state Senate; a body which did not have a say in national policy, certainly not regarding defence or national security.  I am not sure he was even contemplating a US Senate candidacy but he said, among other things:


I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne. What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income, to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

And that resonates for me, because I was horrified back than at the apparent lack of dissent regarding this war. I am certainly not suggesting he was alone, but we are talking about him, aren't we, his principles and integrity? Tell me, then, what was the 'upside' for him?  Was he speaking for his constituency, echoing a mood of discontent in his electorate at a time when the country was rallying behind Bush with unprecedented support? I am not a Chicagoan but I don't remember it playing that way anywhere in the US.

And he is more than a mainstream democrat, though some consider him less, or at least the legislation he has sponsored in the Senate has impressed me as being relevant and significant, if in keeping with his freshman status, though he seems to be 'pushing the envelope' there as well. I recently discovered a post which says it much better than I can here but just to give you an example of his work in recent months:


WASHINGTON, 8 Sep 2006 - U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL) and Tom Coburn (R-OK) today hailed the Senate's passage of the "Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act," a bill that will create a Google-like search engine and database to track approximately $1 trillion in federal grants, contracts, earmarks and loans. "By helping to lift the veil of secrecy in Washington, this database will help make us better legislators, reporters better journalists, and voters more active citizens," Obama said.

WASHINGTON, 29 Sep 2006 - Legislation authored by U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL) and Tom Coburn, M.D. (R-OK) that will stop the abuse of no-bid contracting in the aftermath of a disaster was included in the final Department of Homeland Security funding bill likely to pass the Senate today. After Senate passage, the bill will go to the President's desk to be signed into law.

WASHINGTON, 17 Nov 2006 - U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) this week introduced legislation to protect Americans from tactics that intimidate voters and prevent them from exercising their right to vote on Election Day. The legislation builds on similar legislation he introduced last year by including specific language to address misleading fliers and harassing robocalls that occurred during the 2006 cycle.

WASHINGTON, 6 Dec 2006 - Obama-Hatch Tithing Bill: The House of Representatives today gave final approval to a bill sponsored by Senators Barack Obama (D-IL) Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah) to protect an individual's right to continue reasonable charitable contributions, including religious tithing, during the course of consumer bankruptcy. The measure passed the United States Senate in late September and will now be presented to the President for his signature.

WASHINGTON, 5 Jan 2007 - American Fuels Act of 2007: U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL), Richard Lugar (R-IN) and Tom Harkin (D-IA) announced today that they have introduced comprehensive legislation to both increase the production of renewable fuels like ethanol, and make that expanded volume of fuel more widely available to motorists nationwide.

WASHINGTON, 11 Jan 2007 - Lugar-Obama Proliferation and Threat Reduction Initiative: President Bush today signed the Lugar-Obama proliferation and threat reduction initiative into law. Authored by U.S. Sens. Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Barack Obama (D-IL), the Lugar-Obama initiative expands U.S. cooperation to destroy conventional weapons. It also expands the State Department's ability to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction.

And in the the 110th Congress he serves on four committees: the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, the Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs, the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, and the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. Not bad for a freshman senator.

But lets get to the other things that 'puzzle' you about Senator Obama's strength of support, and how he manages to excite some people the way Dean did back in 2003/04.  Well, I can't help you here... There is the 2004 DNC Keynote Address, of course.  That's where he first grabbed me... and if you haven't watched it you really should.

There is the speech on faith and politics  which might be helpful, at least serving by example to give you an idea of what I meant by challenging the traditional values of his audience, and I mean progressive Democrats, too, which I excerpt here:


I believe in vigorous enforcement of our non-discrimination laws; but I also believe that a transformation of conscience and a genuine commitment to diversity on the part of the nation's CEOs can bring quicker results than a battalion of lawyers.

I think we should put more of our tax dollars into educating poor girls and boys, and give them the information about contraception that can prevent unwanted pregnancies, lower abortion rates, and help assure that that every child is loved and cherished. But my bible tells me that if we train a child in the way he should go, when he is old he will not turn from it. I think faith and guidance can help fortify a young woman's sense of self, a young man's sense of responsibility, and a sense of reverence all young people for the act of sexual intimacy.

I am not suggesting that every progressive suddenly latch on to religious terminology. Nothing is more transparent than inauthentic expressions of faith - the politician who shows up at a black church around election time and claps - off rhythm - to the gospel choir.

But what I am suggesting is this - secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square. Frederick Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, Williams Jennings Bryant, Dorothy Day, Martin Luther King - indeed, the majority of great reformers in American history - were not only motivated by faith, but repeatedly used religious language to argue for their cause. To say that men and women should not inject their "personal morality" into public policy debates is a practical absurdity; our law is by definition a codification of morality, much of it grounded in the Judeo-Christian tradition.

Moreover, if we progressives shed some of these biases, we might recognize the overlapping values that both religious and secular people share when it comes to the moral and material direction of our country. We might recognize that the call to sacrifice on behalf of the next generation, the need to think in terms of "thou" and not just "I," resonates in religious congregations across the country. And we might realize that we have the ability to reach out to the evangelical community and engage millions of religious Americans in the larger project of America's renewal.

You can browse the Chicago Sun-Times and see just what kind of impact he has had as a Illinois State and US Senator; I found that quite useful and impressive. There is the posting from one of our own bloggers, vwcat, which struck me as, though partisan, seeming to represent a succinct view of what influence he has had in his own constituency:


I guess you could say, to find out how Obama plays in the long haul and what his staying power is, talk to people from Illinois. We got the bug early and by the time of Ryan's campaign imploding in the early summer, Obama fever was already solid here. It took a month to find someone who would run against him as he was blowing the GOP away.

He ran at a 60% or more all summer and into the fall. Now, in 07, we are still in thrawl with Obama. He has done his job well. He's done alot for the state and has done alot of legislation. He still draws sell out crowds here and people still crowd and swoon.  

In Southern Illinois it's the Deep South. Like Alabama. He has a big fan base with those white good ol' boys there. Solid Republican districts still love Obama. He attracts the evangelicals, the good ol' boys, the business upper class, working class, dem, repub, and indies.  

He has staying power here and star power as well. The fun thing is seeing all the people who think he's some lightweight flash in the pan. Some guy who peddles just hope and nothing solid. Just wait. It will be fun to see how the country acts when they find out about the real Obama.

And as for the books, well, read 'em.  You won't regret it and it will certainly get an insight into what is under the man's skin and what he is thinking about, and feeling.

But the thing that matters most for me is that what you said is true, you are dead right, I just plain like Barack Obama.  I watch him and listen to him and read his words and it touches me, somehow.  He is asking for something more than my vote and I want to give it to him. And for all the slicing and dicing of polls and triangulation on issues that I read on these postings, and enjoy reading, I might add, I believe that most voters, like me, will vote for a presidential candidate whom they trust, respect and find inspiring.  And if it is all a bunch of cat-shit they will make the most of it and vote with their heart anyway, but I don't think it is. And that is how I felt about RFK, too.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:42:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I got his back (3.00 / 1)

Thanks Shaun.  I will check out his books to find something more substantive.  I would just add a couple of things:

First, there were plenty of polticians all over the country decrying the war.  Many of them showed up for the rallies in places like  NYC.  These politicians, like Obama, were in no way in any political jeopardy for taking this stand.  (in fact, in particularly liberal areas like Chicago, just the opposite.)  This is not to say that Obama wasn't sincere in his opposition to the war; it's only to say that this was no sign of political courage necessarily.

Second, let me suggest that there is nothing in what you quoted of Obama's rhetoric that isn't obvious or politically well poll-tested.  If there is something here beyond a cliche, what is it?  


by justinh on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:00:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I got his back (none / 0)

No worries, I hope you enjoy the books at any rate.

I may not be the best spokesperson for the Senator but thanks for giving me the opportunity to attempt to state my case; there is more to him than just Harry Belafonte with a teleprompter.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 11:02:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I got his back (3.00 / 1)

A large portion of the netroots prefers a confrontational style a la Dean in dealing with the GOP.  This is understandable when the GOP consists of the likes of Karl Rove.

Obama advocates an outreach to the middle in order to buid the broad coalition necessary to enact major legislation like national health care.  This approach is inherently non-confrontational and is thus seen a weak by much of the netroots in the face of the GOP attack machine.

It will take an extraordinary politician to defang the GOP and not be eaten up by them.  Bill Clinton sort of tried and had mixed results.  

Has GWB so weakened the GOP that Obama or someone like him can flip enough GOPers to support a liberal agenda as LBJ did in '64-'65?  Nobody knows for certain the answer to that question but I for one am willing to give Obama a chance to try.

Most of the netroots, however, is yet to convinced that Obmama's apporoach is worth the gamble.


by Sam I Am on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 08:55:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A la Dean (none / 0)

Yeah... The Dean campaign was a great lift.  It was a bit like firing a torpedo... sometimes they run shallow, sometimes deep, hard to aim or track but there is always the chance they will hit something big with a massive detonation; hopefully not one of ours.

Money well spent; instead of a president we got a process.

I am with you on Senator Obama, hopefully he is playing a careful and considered game for the whole stake.  And as for confronting the GOP, didn't HRC tack for the 'beating the Republicans' breeze. Well, who could blame her or anyone else who wants it bare-knuckles... It has been a long wait in the cold.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:46:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I got his back (3.00 / 1)

Maybe.  But most of the objections to Obama that I have seen here aren't because Obama isn't confrontational enough; it's because he isn't substantive enough.


by justinh on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:51:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wanna flip the GOP? (3.00 / 1)

Nobody is going to flip the GOP into supporting a liberal, progressive agenda. But, what will flip the GOP is another election cycle like the last. Only the in the next cycle the DEMS end up increasing their majority in the House and achieving a veto proof Senate. This will have the Republicans not only flipped but on their knees.

So the question is from which candidate can we expect the best leadership and direction. For me the answer is easy: John Edwards.


by jfoster on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 12:06:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Netroots have a tough choice (none / 0)

The difference between Hil, Obama and Edwards is not a big one. They are all great candidates.

The Netroots passion for Lamont was understandable due to the fact that he was opposing worthless Judas Lieberman.


by kingsbridge77 on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 12:44:41 AM EST

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (none / 0)

Shaun, You put things beautifully and express what many of us feel but, cannot find the words to express it.
it does perplex.
But, you have written what we feel.
thank you.
by vwcat on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 01:06:20 AM EST

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (none / 0)

Judging by the response to Obama here previously, it doesn't surprise me, though it does disappoint me.

But I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.


by v2aggie2 on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 02:25:08 AM EST

I've got his back (none / 0)

I have no reason not to. E.J. Dionne wrote an interesting comparison of Hillary and Barack.  


People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people - V is For Vendetta
by BlueCheese on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:41:47 AM EST

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (none / 0)

The pushback against this smear was frontpaged by Markos at Daily Kos.

There were several recommended diaries about it.

The entire premise of this diary is incorrect.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 12:59:56 PM EST

Re: Do the Netroots have Obama's back? (none / 0)

I missed it. But, I wouldn't say the entire premise is incorrect. As the comments in this diary show, Obama is NOT a favorite among the netroots. At a time when he's been declared the most exciting person in politics by the MSM, he clearly doesn't have the backing among the netroots of someone like Edwards for '08, Dean in '04 or Lamont in '06. I think a baseless attack against Edwards like the one on Fox News would have caused hysteria in the blogosphere.

The key question is whether this reflects a bigger problem for Obama in that his efforts to make inroads with the religous right and promenient Republicans have caused him problems with hard core Democrats. The fact that I didn't hear much outrage from the blogs was troubling because I've seen him attacked twice now (the first time being the spat with McCain last year) and neither time did I really see him fight back. At what point does he need to start fighting back and stop being the nicest guy in politics?


by BobbyNYC on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 02:15:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not this netroot (3.00 / 1)

He may not have been in the Senate to vote for the Iraq debacle, but he was there to endorse one of its architects and major liars, Condi Rice, as Secretary of State.  To date this vote has not been explained or recanted by Obama.


by pascal1947 on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 04:52:16 PM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.